#381 Wars, Crimes and War Crimes (Foreign Policy)

Thanks Jay. Yes on trouble with “patriotism”. Nothing worse than “USA USA”. That has always bothered me. Though, I am proud of my immigrant forbears, for getting here on dangerous ships, some dying on the way. Some almost instantly fighting for the Union, losing limbs, making a life here that was still better than the one they left behind. I’m also proud of my community, my neighbors & friends & family, for voting, paying taxes, helping out in every way they can. I do love this country, and though you are right that individually those of us who were born here are darn lucky, we can be proud of trying our best to make this a better country all the time. I’m very happy and yes even proud to live in a country where you can podcast your show & say whatever you like. I’d fight for that right, Jay, if I had to. Like so many of my ancestors did. And I do take some pride in that feeling. Cheers, and keep it up.

I have been under the impression that pride in ones country is the next step towards fascism and all other horrors that are on this earth. But the flip side to that coin is that KNOWING that pride in ones country is false inevitably leads to pride in nothing. It is very interesting once you go the whole way. Pride in nothing….just out here walking around.

“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”

- Arthur Schopenhauer, Aphorisms

I’m of two sides of the patriotism issue. On the one hand, I feel Americans are rather, well nuts about being Americans. Also, as an African-American, I can say plenty of the backhand slap from Uncle Sam, both personally and historically. This country has done horrible things about throughout its history to my ancestors, working people and brown people throughout the world.

However, I’ve met plenty of immigrants who could tell you horrors of poverty and war that would make us claw our eyes out. Listening to their stories gives a real perspective on what makes America great. My girlfriend’s mother for example is a proud Nigerian, but she’s also a proud American because she can do things in the US (inherit and own a business, gain an advance education, etc.) that wouldn’t be possible for a woman in her home country.

Also, there are opportunities and ideas that we can express as Americans that would get us shot and killed other parts of the world. Frankly, even the most dye-in-the-wool Lefty probably isn’t rushing to live Cuba or Venezeula, as those great ‘progressive leaders’ would probably have us arrested for half the crap we say and blog about our leaders in the States.

I’d have to agree with Jay — I’m not some flag-waver but I’m not an outright flag-burner either. Simply put, I’m lucky to be an American, warts and all. As Chris Rock once said “America is like an uncle who paid your college tuition, but molested you.”

Don’t wave a flag like some Tea Party nut job– but don’t walk around in faux guilt either that many lefties languish themselves with either. I’ve got issues with America, but I have freedoms that my father only dreamed about as a child. For God’s Sake — we have a Black President when 50 years ago, my grandparents have virtually no rights as natural born citizens.

And quite frankly, if you’re white, straight, male, non-Jewish and middle class, what do you honestly have to complain about? You’re not 4/5 of prisoners while making up 12% of the general population. And there aren’t states making crazy laws to kick you out of the country because your mother was born somewhere else.

Not to pull a wing nut move, but if America would so god awful, you would have left by now.

I really enjoyed your last thoughts about patriotism. This is something I think a lot about already. I teach middle school social studies and we talk about the dangers of nationalism & patriotism, and the possible “slippery slope” to fascism. So this got me to thinking even more about it. I’ve always hated the “USA, USA” chant (another reason I loathe the GOP convention!)and I’m convinced too many people move from a pride in their country to a blind love and loyalty to their country. Nationalism leads people to do really stupid and dangerous things, all in the “name of their homeland.” There is a fine line to be walked here. I think we should appreciate what we have here, and be thankful for the possibilities available to us. But, just as we need to be watchful of our government, we need to be mindful about our pride in our nation.

It’s just another -ism that generally leads to bad things. It divides people, causes people to fight and hurt one another. I’m “sick and tired of your ism schism game.”